Announcement - Gen 9 SV National Dex UU Metagame Discussion (2024)

So I was going to make a post on why Drizzle probably isn't the best idea to retest (honestly it still isn't) but recent meta shifts invalidated a lot of my point so maybe Drizzle would be fine now? I veer towards no still but assuming Drizzle retest still happens there's a decent chance it's ok.

Introducing...

The Grass Renaissance!
(pretend the blue is Dragon type blue)

Part 1: The Problem

For the longest time, Mega Venusaur has been the grass type of NDUU. It has had its ups and downs, but generally the meta was fast paced enough that its flaws of having basically no consistent recovery wasn't that big a deal. Compared to other grass types, it's bulkier (besides physdef Tangrowth), way less passive, was not scared out as much by Iron Moth, and checked what was needed of it. There was very little reason to use other grasses other than Hydrapple (who historically ran and still does run NP sets) beyond niche things like already having another mega, or needing something to handle Excadrill better. Thus, most of the grasses sat in B/B-.

The thing is, the meta has shifted a lot since then. Notably, it has slowed down a lot, something that has resulted in the surge in Boots Iron Moth usage to wear down Ting Lu for a lategame clean, and seen a surge in sand teams and spike stack. This means that Mega Venusaur's lack of consistent recovery and total lack of passive recovery rears its ugly head in a big way, not helped by the fact sand halves Synthesis recovery and Mega Tyranitar is the best mon in the tier. Oftentimes, Mega Venusaur winds up struggling to make a net positive in recovery, be it between Mega Tyranitar coming in and crippling Synthesis, hazards, especially Ting Lu spiking like its life depends on it, or just being overwhelmed by strong hits and offensive pressure. This makes Mega Venusaur often feel woefully lacking in one of its major roles - checking things. Oftentimes, it will just get worn down and forced out, or be forced to agressively come in to try and Synthesis (good luck if there's a Mega Tar lol).

Part 2: The Solution

If Mega Venusaur struggles to get the free time to heal up, then it's time to break out the Regenerator mons. If hazards are an issue, run boots. Hey, did you guys know we have grass types besides Mega Venusaur? Initially, they don't look like appealing options given MVenu still has a lot over them, but when you actually use them the difference is night and day. Suddenly, Greninja doesn't slowly wear down your grass, Mega Tyranitar isn't a death sentence to your recovery, Rotom-Wash is now still an annoyance but not one that can get chip on you for free, and that spike stack team no longer makes you sob at the mere sight of their Rotom-Wash.

Amoonguss checks most of what Mega Venusaur does (it's riskier vs Greninja but given Rotom-Wash is an extremely common mon to partner with it, so between the two handling all of its moves and Regenerator, realistically it's not a big deal to handle) while being notably far harder to wear down. While you're more passive than MVenu, Sludge Bomb still does a lot and Foul Play will make any brave Scizor weep for mercy. Oh, and Spore, only one of the most broken (still legal) moves in the game, unless you run into another Amoonguss or an MVenu. This is the grass closest in role to Mega Venusaur, so if your team needs a more reliable MVenu that consistently checks stuff, give this a go over MVenu. This, imo, is the poster child of the Grass Renaissance (I'm not doing the colours again).

I've run PhysDef the most and gotten pretty good results, but honestly SpDef probably checks more overall (more consistent into Gren), but a lot of the stuff you'd think it would be better into either beat you anyways (Clefable unless you're Clear Smog), aren't amazingly relevant (Enam has to be the hardest fall off in history, actually no I take that back, Thundy-I literally used to be an Uber), or you already check with PhysDef adequately enough anyways/SpDef wouldn't help you much with (Keldeo, Tapu Fini, Washtom, Greninja). I find PhysDef still answers most of the stuff you need it to anyways and gives you the possibility of suicide Sporing things like post Steelium Excadrill or post Ghostium SD Aegi in a pinch, plus you don't take as much from Pursuit MTar.

AKA "Nice 7% Washtom": The Mon. Ok, that's technically Mega Sceptile, but nobody runs that. While it doesn't do as well against Greninja (worse than Amoonguss actually), and it has a slightly different defensive profile, it's still adequate into its STABs and it also packs a mean Nasty Plot set that can run away with games surprisingly easily unless it runs into Air Slash Celesteela or Gapdos (Z blows the grasses back) and is the third hardest Washtom answer in the tier (the best ranked one), and Washtom is the major thing you want a grass for anyways. You also kinda sorta check Exca barring +2 Steelium and +2 Iron Head flinches, but it does have to be chipped first. Imma be real though I haven't used this much, so I won't say much more.

AKA The Knock Merchant. PhysDef for if you hate Excadrill and Iron Fraud with every fiber of your being, AV if you need a Aegi, Gren (be weary of IBeam and Protean Sludge Wave though) and Keldeo check, and want additional safety against Washtom. Honestly haven't used it yet but I've heard good things.

Part 3: Notes
Despite all of them being more consistent into the things you want to check, I want to stress that overall MVenu is still the better mon, as it is less passive than all of these bar maybe Hydrapple and has more bulk. We're not sinking this thing to B- by a long shot. Also, only really Amoonguss is directly comparable. That said, expect Amoonguss to have the greatest comeback in NDUU VR history.

Additional non Grass related notes:

So, yeah, now that the meta's slowed down, Boots Iron Moth is going crazy. Ting Lu and Mega Tyranitar are by far the best answers to Iron Moth and both get gradually worn down by Iron Moth over the course of a game, rendering them inconsistent answers. It lacks the game winning potential Booster Energy has but against teams with no reliable speed control against Iron Moth, especially since Boots has Morning Sun to stay healthy so chip + something like Zeraora or Scarf Hydreigon isn't going to work as well, you probably won't notice the difference.

Luckily, Hippowdon is a solid replacement for teams down horrendous vs Iron Moth thanks to it having reliable recovery + sand to wear Moth down, and most of our speed control are fairly reliable. It also just keels over and starts bawling if it sees Slowking. Unfortunately, Slowking also kind of keels over and starts bawling over Mega Tyranitar, so take it as you will. Most speed control actually answers it, however, since this isn't Booster Moth we're talking about here, so you're not dead in the water if you're not packing defensive checks like you are against Booster.

The defensive spread on its analysis sucks, use this spread by

Danbear02 instead:

The analysis spread fails to actually check half the stuff you need it to reliably, namely Excadrill in sand, Mega Tyranitar and SD Aegislash (ok it's still a bit iffy into SD Aegi but you can reliably eat a +2 Ghostium from full and kill with EQ while it is in Blade). The analysis spread puts a lot into outspeeding and 2HKOing Celesteela for some reason which you don't need, and with how much bulk it sacrifices in the process, it's not worth.

However, that's not the Buzzwole set I want to talk about, since Defensive is still tough to justify/fit, especially during the Grass Renaissance. The one I want to talk about is Choice Band.

Leech Life is the second slash because you struggle more with MVenu otherwise, but to be honest it's probably better if you're running it with MTar and agressive play vs MVenu. Everything else is pretty self explanatory.

In the wake of the Iron Hands ban, this is the closest replacement to CB Ferropalmas, boasting ludicrous damage (2HKOing Skarmory and Hippo easily) and comparable physical bulk. Its STAB combo is worse, but oh well. You also offensively check SD Aegislash which is hilarious.

However, despite the fact it's fun af to use when it works, I've got to concede it's not the greatest mon in the world. Gapdos mostly does the CB fighting role better, all while not having to predict as much vs MVenu and Amoonguss and having U-turn. That said, it's worth noting that Buzz doesn't get RKd by Zera, and Zera is seeing more usage. Fun mon to build and use, though.

It's probably not worth bothering with non boosting item Buzzwole, missing the 2HKO on Skarm and Hippo is lame, and BU is plain not worth defensive or otherwise. I'd say free SD Buzzwole but that's literally just Ferropalmas with Roost and worse STABs. Fist Plate Offensive Roost 3 Attacks might be fine though? It 2HKOs skarm after rocks at least and is a roll vs boots. Need something for grasses or Clef though depending on if you go PJab or Ice Punch third slot.

It's that point in the meta where Scizor is good again!

In the wake of Alakazam usage and Iron Fraud being good (but not broken lol), there's good merit to bulky Scizor again, who also doubles as a wincon and U-turn pivot. HP Fire MVenu is also basically nonexistent and it also can act as a countermeasure to some of the Grass Renaissance, especially with SD Bug Z. Checking Zeraora is pretty neat too. Neat option for BO teams who want something a bit more reliable for Alakazam than Aegislash.

Finally, speed control that doesn't trip over and stumble vs the steel birds! You RK boots moth if it takes about 25% chip, you RK Gapdoz, you threaten Celesteela and Skarmory, you even act as a volt immune, you can Volt around, and you contribute to the ever growing assault on MVenu's longevity! What's not to love? I've run it on a few teams and been pretty impressed. Here's one replay of it making the greatest comeback in mons history. Lots of good traits to this mon right now. Also, run CC, not Toxic. Being walled by Ting is not fun.

That's all for now. Viva la Moong.